The self-righteousness of vapers and their "miracle" product
Tuesday, July 16, 2013 at 15:03 Last night I attended what at times felt like a love-in for electronic cigarettes.
The Institute of Economic Affairs hosted an event entitled Free Market Solutions in Health: Prohibition or Harm Reduction?.
Chaired by Mark Littlewood, speakers were Chris Snowdon, director of the IEA Lifestyle Economics Unit; Dr Axel Klein, editor of Drugs and Alcohol Today; Clive Bates, former director of ASH; Katherine Devlin, president of the Electronic Cigarette Trade Association; and Rebecca Taylor, Liberal Democrat MEP for Yorkshire and the Humber.
In terms of consumer choice e-cigarettes are undoubtedly a "good thing" and it will be scandalous if their future is threatened by over-regulation.
As Clive Bates pointed out, regulation will not only increase the cost, it will reduce their appeal by making them as safe and bland as possible. The regulatory framework for consumer protection already exists, he added. All government has to do is enforce it properly.
That said, I'm not going to become an evangelist for e-cigarettes. Forest stands for Freedom Organisation for the Right to Enjoy Smoking Tobacco and electronic cigarettes, lest we forget, are not a tobacco product.
As I've written before, it doesn't help that so many 'vapers' and e-cigarette companies feel the need to attack cigarettes or sneer at those who continue to smoke tobacco (in preference to using a battery operated nicotine delivery system!).
Hence my hackles did rise ever so slightly last night when Katherine Devlin, an ex-smoker, dismissed the idea that e-cigarettes might become a gateway product for traditional cigarettes. Why, she asked, would anyone want to change from "something that tastes quite nice" to a "smouldering compost heap".
She was right, I believe, to dismiss the "gateway" argument but wrong to do so by disparaging ordinary cigarettes and, effectively, those who choose to smoke.
It's like vegetarians making derogatory comments about the smell of cooked meat, or meat eaters doing the same about vegetarian food. It's a cheap shot that breeds intolerance so why do it? Aren't we in this together?
Devlin described e-cigarettes as a "miracle" and while I admire her passion and commitment there is something rather messianic about some e-cig campaigners that I find a bit off-putting.
With this in mind, perhaps, Mark Littlewood invited the panellists to comment on why vapers are so positive about their habit in comparison with "self-loathing" smokers.
Bates compared vapers to "tekkies" (which the Urban Dictionary defines as "someone who loves their computer more than life itself").
Initially I thought he said "Trekkies" (aka Star Trek fans) but it's much the same thing. Next month, for example, vapers even have their own convention, UK Vapefest.
Chris Snowdon responded by saying, "Vapers have all the frustration and anger of people who have been persecuted for being smokers combined with all the self-righteousness of the ex-smoker."
The audience laughed but, sadly, it's true. Now, if only vapers could drop (or disguise) some of that smug, sanctimonious self-righteousness I might be more supportive.
Update: A few years ago Forest considered the idea of an open air festival for smokers called Smoke In The Park. I even checked out a possible location although we never took it any further.
That was an idea that fell by the wayside, with good reason, perhaps. Smoking is still such a natural part of life for many people, why would they want to attend an event dedicated to something they do every day?
Nevertheless I might buy a ticket for Vapefest just to see what they get up to. I've never attended a fan convention before ... It might be fun.
PS. Forgot to plug Chris Snowdon's latest publication, Free Market Solutions in Health. I haven't read it yet but I will.
Reader Comments (33)
"tastes quite nice"
I always thought,that in British English, that phrase meant something was damn near inedible ? Similar to the "tastes interesting, may I have the recipe, please?" (so I know what to avoid in future!). I like and use E-Cigs for Waiting Rooms, Departure Lounges,Customs Halls and getting up the noses of the fASHites in general but I have tried most of the cheap disposable and reusable brands and they all taste, IMHO, diabetic shock inducing sweet. Like sucking on a toffee, as I said here:
http://n2d.me/blog/a-quick-dirty-review-of-the-nano-disposable-e-cig-by-sbc/
I'm glad Katherine didn't say it's harmless, a tenth the legal price, one fifth the black market price and you don't have to stand outside; which are most people's reasons and which are why both Governments and the Anti Smoking Industry so desperately want rid of it. Many of us still smoke as well and I'd be in a pub smoking room were they ever to return. If people are smug and sanctimonious about ecigs, they will be in general. You wouldn't have liked them as smokers. Ignore them.
"Now, if only vapers could drop (or disguise) some of that smug, sanctimonious self-righteousness I might be more supportive." Well said Simon.
All smokers who still enjoy tobacco feel the same. Vapers won't save themselves by denigrating us. We're either in it together and therefore we have a smoke/vape fest together or we're not and we're excluded from their party and we'll leave the vapers to their own delusions.
They should remember, however, that the moves to medicalise their product of choice means they'll be queuing up for their repeat prescriptions with the heroin addicts waiting for their morphine while we smokers will grow our own, go underground and retain our dignity while theirs is handed to them each week by a sanctimonious GP who is probably anti-smoker and anti-vaper.
O/T but R4's "File on Four" tonight at 8.00pm is looking at the tobacco lobby's influence on legislation!
God, TC are sore losers...
There seems to be a sub section of vaping culture that is as opposed to an individuals right to smoke as the "nanny state" do gooders.
Until both Smokers and Vapers, and everything in between (I dual use) realize that we are both fighting the same warped ideology I fear any success will be just outwith our grasp.
Vapefest tickets? Naaa. Just pitch up!
I think the reason why there is no "smokefest" is that all cigarettes look about the same - but electronic devices in the way people have put them together, or decorated them, or spent hours of loving care on them are unique shareable things. And then there's the e-liquid.....the flavours...the throat hit...the vapour production....tanks....atties....cartomisers...so much to show and talk about!
S'wonderful! Beats smoking for me.
If it were medicalised, hobby vapourists could probably sort themselves out. I doubt it will "go away". No matter what the haters do.
Well you probably never experienced the pressure under which vapers can get at times: here in Germany most pubs won't allow vaping at all - out of fear they might catch a fine, as it is not clear if vaping has to be seen as "smoking" -> some very narrow-minded politicians think it should and therefore made the non-smoker's protection act up in a way that they expressively include vapers <- and other institutions have already banned vaping expressedly along with smoking. On the other hand, we very often experience the smokers of "the real thing" to look at us funny - as if we were too stupid to realize that these are not cigarettes ... and without ever even having tried a puff, they declare that "it doesn't work anyway" ... while many non-smokers (the radical ones), instead of acknowledging our good will and compliance to not pollute "their" (!) air, instead think they are entitled to lecture us about how addicted we still are, and that we should break free from our "illusion bubble". So YES, I understand, that vapers can get a bit righteous at times -- it might not be the most intelligent thing to be, but it's one thing: it's COMPLETELY UNDERSTANDABLE!
Sadly its not just vapers being negative about smokers. I've met, at my last workplace, plenty of smokers who were just as hostile and derogatory about me vaping. I've seen loads recently about how vapers have to be careful about becoming as bad as ex smoking evangelists but we hardly hear a peep about the smoking evangelist firing the other way.
We all do need to protect our rights to choose our poison and try to avoid denigrating each other, alas humans are excellent at getting on each others nerves. It's not usually in a deliberate way, but by being too focussed on one thing not to spot how evangelical we can be.
Smokers who use ecigs, are just that - Smokers who use ecigs. If they do not continue to use tobacco, that is their choice. They think and act like a smoker, they believe in the rights of smokers to live their lives without interference from nannying do gooders.
Unfortunately, there are some people who use ecigs that no longer consider themselves as smokers, BUT to compound things, they become 'Holier than Thou' and disparage smokers.
I predominantly use ecigs because they are cheaper, legal to use in many pubs and they are so divisive in the way they show up double standards and corruption in the corridors of power.
Ecigs should be celebrated for their ability to increase the Freedom to Choose and their ability to expose how we have and are being manipulated by the business interests of powerful lobbying groups.
The story of ecigs is still unfolding - it makes interesting reading.
Tobacco - mild taste, strong taste, with a cuppa tea, after a sublime meal, company on a walk or a cycle ride, in the garden with a glass of wine, lovely, hand rolling a work a of art, comparing the craft of growing a plant, making a cigarette compared to someone else's and what tips they have for growing/rolling/mixing/curing better, pipes, different kinds of pipes, cig holders, different types of cig holder, cig cases, cigars, fat, thin, Cuban etc etc etc ... I think we are all in it together so let's join up, meet up and fight together. The I'm alright Jack approach means we all lose one by one.
I agree with Pat we are all in this together, whether we use Tobacco or Vape, lets be honest if E-cigs are banned or medicalised to destruction what will 75% of vapers do, they will go back to Tobacco use.
At the end of the day we are NICOTINIES, in what ever form we indulge, even the long term users of NRT.
IMO, Ms Devlin could be justifiably labelled 'anti'. As far as I can gather, the only real difference to the run of the mill variety is that she vapes. Significantly, she also represents the industry (or at least some of it).
With friends like these....
I like Katherine Devlin.But I don't always agree with her views.
That being said I don't like the trampling of people's basic rights to choose what they want to do or put in or not put into their own bodies.
Smoking made me a libertarian and that part of me made me libertarian would not allow me to pay to persecute other smokers with my tax dollars.
All of that bought me into the vaping culture where I have never felt like I belonged because of some people and their very prejudicial views.
And although e cigarettes are not a tobacco product where you are a judge said they are exactly that in the United States.
Vapers forget in the njoy case the argument they made in animus curae form to keep e cigarettes from being pulled off the market by the fda was that they were used for smoking pleasure.
"FOR SMOKING PLEASURE"
Vapers would do good to take note of that before they climb on their high horse .
Somewhere in this jumble of legal documents that animus curae is in it's full form.......... http://www.scribd.com/collections/2774852/Federal-courts-Tobacco
Ye Gods..
I have just bought a vape thing, better than the ecig by a mile as a substitute when a real cig insn't possible, but as compared to a Dunhill.. Nah.. Is like comparing a rich tea biscuit to a chunky kit kat ..
But what the hell do these 'vapers' think? That they are the 'good guys' of smoking ?, lolol.. They have NO idea what's
coming... Bless. Hy'll soon learn ..
I, too, have recently bought an e-cig as a stand-in for the real thing when I’m not able to escape for a break. Not convinced, I’m afraid. It’s better than nothing, but the first few puffs make me cough and splutter more than any real cigarette has ever done if I inhale too deeply; and if I don’t inhale deeply it’s like trying to smoke a cigarette that’s got a hole in it – really difficult to get a decent drag from. And it’s HEAVY. I didn’t really how light as a feather real cigarettes were. The e-thingy weighs a ton by comparison, so that holding it between index and middle finger, cigarette-style, is distinctly awkward which in a weird sort of way distracts from the relaxation of the whole smoking-type action. I certainly won’t be completely converting any time soon. Strictly an emergency measure only for me. Oh, and it lights up GREEN, not orange, like a real cigarette, although the steam/smoke effect is good. Not sure about the slightly sweet taste, though, either – OK at first but after a few puffs (about half a cigarette’s worth) it gets just a teeny tad sickly …
Misty - why not try the tank-vape thingy Dunhillbabe mentioned - they don't look like cigarettes, aren't held like cigs and the 'drag' is more like real smoking.
You still don't, of course, experience the pleasure of taking a cig from the packet, lighting it, holding it between your fingers and finishing it. (Anti-smokers will never understand that it's not just about the nicotine.)
Mmmm. I know what you're saying, Joyce, but I’ve got a colleague who uses one of those and I’m a bit put off them, to be honest, because there’s a bit too much of the gadget-y “trying to give up smoking” air about them to me. And I’m not. I know they’re not the same, but to me they have the same kind of look (though of course they’re not quite so ridiculous) as those “inhalator” things that Big Pharma produces that look a bit like you’re trying to smoke a tampon!
I’ll be honest, I think I’d be a bit embarrassed to use something so un-cigarette-y, in case people thought I was trying to give up. I couldn’t bear all those patronising: “Ah, given up at last? Oh, jolly dee!” type comments that inevitably come when non-smokers think you’re trying to quit. As if you've now "joined their gang." No thanks.
The thing is, as well as the enjoyment of smoking cigarettes, I genuinely love the look and feel of “real” ones (and I always have, even before I ever smoked). Contrary to what the antis would spout about just “needing a fix,” smoking for me is about more than just getting a nicotine hit (although that’s a vital part of the process, of course). E-cigs that look like real cigs mirror that pretty closely.
And if I’m going to indulge in the occasional vape, I want it to be in a way that really pisses off any anti-smoker who might catch sight of me whilst I’m doing it!
I have an e-cig which looks nothing like a cigarette (eGo-C), and I quite enjoy it as an addendum to my rollies. I have a few different flavours of e-liquid, and it's quite fun. I have neither intention nor desire to eschew the satisfaction of smoking real tobacco leaf, though. E-cigs are not, for me, a substitute.
A few years ago I used to post regularly on a forum, and my involvement in threads on smoking led me to start researching the subject, so as to back up the arguments I knew to be correct with links, which in turn led me to blogs like this one. A fellow traveller on the same forum who used to back me up (I was very much in the minority in these debates) arranged to meet me when I went briefly to UK. Nice bloke, intelligent, smoked rollies. He later started vaping, and became quite the evangelist about it. I revisited the forum six months ago just for a look, and he'd recently posted on an old thread I'd started, extolling the virtues of e-cigs. I replied in a jokey way, and the guy basically cut me dead, essentially saying how bad tobacco was. I was stunned. Egad! Gone over to the other side! He was a real supporter on my debates, too!
If I am going to vape then I want my toy cigarette to look and act as close to the real thing as possible. I had an e-cig and wasn't impressed not least because it hasn't worked since it's second charge so it seems a complete waste of cash - and they are not cheap.
Isn't there a little bit of realpolitik here? In the sense that were the argument to be phrased something like: "This is a great alternative, it's all about consumer choice, smokers should be free to do what they want" etc etc, it would be dismissed just as the pro tobacco choice arguments are by media/public policy.
In other words, the approach taken by Devlin et al shouldn't be read as smugness, or a condemnation of smokers' choices; rather it appeals to the current anti-tobacco culture by saying "look what this product does - it stops people from smoking".
Now, as committed smokers, you might like the message, but perhaps you can see that it couldn't really be put out any other way?
By the way, I don't really see this smugness in vapers - most are very happy that they have found an alternative, are very worried about the future, and do not view smokers with any disdain whatsoever.
That said, there'll always be a 'type' who is insufferable about anything they feel they've achieved, but this is hardly limited to smoking.
If someone want to "vape" (silly word) that is their prerogative - personally I think they look absolutely daft! God knows what they must taste like - nothing like the taste of a natural herb, which is after all, what tobacco is.
When I was on Simon's boat party recently, I even met one guy who smoked/vaped an electronic cigar - instead of smelling the beautiful wafts of pure Havana, all I could smell was something resembling the steam from a Chinese laundry (do they still exist?)
Anyone remember a few years back when teenagers started going around sucking baby's dummies? I think they were flavoured with some sort of sweetie flavours, similar, so I hear to what the "vapers" suck on now.
Well, as I said, it is their prerogative - but I still think they are silly and babyish!
I have been a Vaper for nearly 6 years. Prior to that, I rolled my own for 40 years and enjoyed it. When I tried an Ecig, I enjoyed it more, simple as that. I have never looked back.
I do not look down at smokers. I was one and enjoyed it. That would be hypocrisy. My view is to each his own. If you vape, all well and good. If you smoke that's fine. We all make our own choices. Vapers are not a smug elite group. We have just made a choice.
I have to agree with you Peter, e-fags are not 'cool' and actually highlight the addictive element, rather than the all round pleasure derived from real smoking. I have some (rarely used, mainly when I'm out of baccy), but don't use them in public. I saw someone chugging away on one outside a pub a few weeks back. One of the fancy ones. Frankly, he looked a bit of a berk. As for nicotine free juice - WTF is the point of that?
Russell had some very wise words:
" I predominantly use ecigs because they are cheaper, legal to use in many pubs and they are so divisive in the way they show up double standards and corruption in the corridors of power.
Ecigs should be celebrated for their ability to increase the Freedom to Choose and their ability to expose how we have and are being manipulated by the business interests of powerful lobbying groups."
BTW, R4 8pm last night on the EU TPD. Linda McAvan MEP must have given them the email Jason Cropper of Totally Wicked ecigs sent her - perhaps expecting sympathy. He since resigned, but it was glorious. Five million deaths and Hitler both mentioned. She disingenously said she wants an adult debate - about pleasing the Pharmaceutical Industry by banning a harmless product which will indisputable prevent tens of thousands of case of lung cancer in the next few decades in the UK alone, just as snus has done in Sweden. It was just about believable that these people were sincere in their belief that passive smoking is harmful, but now their obscene philosophy - I haven't managed to figure out exactly what it is - is being exposed. As Russell remarked,
"The story of ecigs is still unfolding - it makes interesting reading."
I agree with most of the sentiments expressed both in SC's article and in many of the comments here.
Yes, there are some sanctimonious and sometimes even evangelistic vapers out there, and usually they are the ones who took it up as an aid to quitting, or are new to "the hobby" and have not really discovered the joys and choices of vaping. The attitude would be best summed up by the saying "There but for the grace of 'e-cigs', go I"!
There are also many people out there who are pro e-cigs, who are keen to show off what they have, what they use and even how it tastes etc. These are the ones quietly getting on with what they are doing, who will happily pause to answer questions and show off, they may even give advice as to how to find the vaper's ultimate goal - the "perfect vape". They will however know that there is no such universal beast, and warn that the search for it can prove almost as expensive as smoking. These are vaping's success stories, as far as switching goes. The prime UK example of this type of person is a presenter of Vapoutrails TV, David Dorn. Encouragement as opposed to evangelism is the key here!
Ms Devlin has been captured by her job, and as such is required to be evangelistic to do it properly, but sometimes she does overdo it a bit. Kath is a wonderful person who would not deliberately become sanctimonious.
Myself? I am what is dismissively called a "dual-fueller", that is one who both smokes and vapes. Thus attacking smokers for their "bad habit" would be cutting my nose off to spite my face. I love faffing around with a genesis atomiser and home-made mods in the evening, but during the morning I just don't have the time, so I smoke - a little.
PS. Advice for Vapefest - book a hotel room somewhere near it NOW, as I am assured that beer is a goodly part of the proceedings. I just wish I could get there, but for a Bournemouth hotelier in August, it's an impossibility.
My vaping mates have shunned me since I started using snus.
They claim I've returned to the evil weed !
I've switched to e cigs, for lots of reasons. Cost being the main one. I think vapers are just using the junk science about smoking and throwing it back at the tobacco control.
For example SHS, there is none with vaping.
TC say smoking causes lung cancer, because of the tar and all the chemicals in tobacco. Vapers will say that e cigs only contain nicotine and other harmless stuff and will not cause lung cancer.
E cig user were smokers. Many still smoke as well. Smoking is not threatened by TC, MHRA and the EU. E cigs are.
It's not about smoking or vaping. It's about personal freedom. Smokers and vapers should stick together. Divide and rule work very well for TC.
George Monbiots article, the fourth one in fact, in the Guardian yesterday was a load of shite and propaganda about plain packs. Notice, not once did he or other articles mention, the biggest impact on tobacco sales, has been e cigs. They love to keep the smoking, e cigs stories separate.
Smokers and vapers (and everyone else for that matter) should be aware of the REALLY important thing - it is THE COERCION which is the problem.
Coercion takes many forms. For example, the EU Healthists dictating how much nicotine, tar etc cigarettes should contain is coercion; plain packs is coercion; the medicalisation of ecigs is coercion.
It is the coercion which we must all fight against.
I have to say that although I'm for freedom of choice and I despise both antismokers and 'anti-vapers' - I can, in a way, see their problem, in that e-cigs (unlike nicotine patches) are blatantly designed to mimic the look, feel, and pleasure of smoking real ones. Thus, it perpetuates the idea that smoking is pleasurable (which 'antis' hate) and I think that although real cigs are more likely to be a 'gateway' to e-cigs, it could possibly work the other way around too. It will be interesting to follow this debate because it puts both sides in a bit of a quandary. E-cigs can be presented, marketed, or perceived either as (a) 'safe clean alternatives to filthy harmful tobacco with no nasty smell or secondhand smoke!' Or (b) a reasonable substitute enabling smokers to 'get around' smoking bans etc - precisely because they have no intention of actually giving up smoking.
The Antis want you to go 'cold turkey' with Pharma nicotine. Maybe smoking e-cigs is like trying to give up or cut down drinking, by drinking non-alcoholic beer. The fake beer might help, or it might just keep reminding you of how much you like the real stuff.
BTW I've recently tried a couple of e-cigs and the experience - slightly sweet flavours and a very cool 'water vapour' type of 'smoke' - seems to me more like smoking a shisha pipe than a cigarette . . .
I would like to apologise if my comments came across as 'sanctimonious' or anti-smoking (or, god forbid, anti-smoker) in any way, shape or form. I can assure you that was most emphatically not my intention. I smoked for 27 years before switching to ecigs, so it would be utterly hypocritical for me to suggest that smokers shouldn't smoke, and I would never do so. Indeed, the petition that I originally wrote to the EU Commission back when they began to show an interest in ecigs is entitled 'Freedom of Choice for Smokers', and that is what I truly believe in, as I tried to elucidate when responding to the question about education at the IEA evening.
All I want is for smokers to be given truthful information about their options, and the freedom to choose for themselves. That is all.
If I have been 'captured' by my job, then it is time for me to step down (which I would MORE than happily do!) but I don't believe this is the case. I was conscious of time constraints on Monday night, and don't particularly like the sound of my own voice, particularly when there are other, more interesting points of view to be heard, such as those of the other panellists. Hence my not wanting to elaborate too much on my own personal position regarding these issues.
I would fight for your right to smoke as hard as I would fight for your right to vape; it is true, however, that my role requires me to separate the two when discussing policy decisions.
It might interest you to know (or not, I can't tell) but every No Smoking Day, without fail, I buy a packet of (10) cigarettes, and smoke one, just to stick two fingers up to the powers that be who try to tell me - as a free adult - that I am powerless to decide for myself. I no longer enjoy those cigarettes, and indeed, struggle to get through a whole one, but I absolutely INSIST on my right to have them, if I so choose, and would take whatever action I could to protect your right to have them if you choose.
So please accept my apologies if my comments offended anyone. Certainly not my intention, and when it comes to freedom of choice, we are most definitely in the same camp.
I had, and still do have a problem with smokers, non smokers and vapers saying that if you use an ecig you are trying to give up smoking. I did however realise recently that this sometimes contains an element of actuality, ie, if you use an electronic cigarette, you are not lighting and consuming a combustible material, so you are not actually smoking.
May I draw your attention to an analogy. Often a person will say, I need to hoover the lounge. Now the odds against that person actually using a brand of vacuum cleaner called Hoover is stacked against them, but they will not say, I need to Panasonic the lounge, or Dyson it, or vacuum it, they hoover it, a generic term.
I take an ecig out with me because I cannot bother to roll a cig out of the house, and factory made cigarettes are too full of other additives, (as a result of EU directives...but that is another subject). I am a smoker. This has become a generic term for a person who enjoys consuming nicotine. Even if I became a full time vaper, or stop all together, I am, and always will be a smoker.
Yes Kath, to a point you have been captured by your job, in that you live it, breathe it and spend almost all your waking hours working for vapers. This cannot but have an effect on your views and occasionally, when you are tired and still speaking this can show through in your actions.
You need to take a bit more time to relax - difficult at the moment - to sniff the butterflies and watch the flowers - or vice-versa, what ever takes your fancy, otherwise this is only going to get worse.
You have certainly never offended me, and I hope I have not offended you.
You can bite my head off next time you visit the chat channel if you feel the need!
I must take issue with timbone
factory made cigarettes do NOT contain additives
For many years I worked in quality control for a cigarette manufacturer.
Additives(topping) are only used in pipe and hand-rolling tobaccos
Even menthol cigarettes contain no additives the menthol is in the foil!