Wanted: nominations for smoker-friendly holiday destinations
Tuesday, April 3, 2012 at 8:00 I am currently in France enjoying a short break.
Simon Calder, the Independent's effervescent travel editor, is an expert on holiday breaks long and short and on Saturday we shared a sofa in the Green Room at Television Centre.
Simon is a former smoker but he's not an anti-smoker. He asked me about smoker-friendly destinations and I said I thought that Eastern Europe and cities such as Prague are the most welcoming, although the situation is changing. Hungary and Bulgaria, for example, are becoming more restrictive than they were.
On reflection, I should have mentioned Austria. As I reported last year when I visited Vienna, you can eat, drink and smoke in many, not all, bars and cafes. I even had breakfast in a beautiful coffee house with smokers lighting up all around me. Speaking as a non-smoker I found it strangely liberating. Non-smokers, btw, had a generous no-smoking area so everyone was happy with the arrangement, or seemed to be. The place was packed.
Anyway, our conversation got me thinking and I said I would invite nominations from readers for smoker-friendly destinations. They can be anywhere in the world but they have to be current and I need a sentence or two explaining your nomination. Post them here and I will forward the link to Simon.
In the meantime, and by complete coincidence, The Free Society has just published an article - Holiday blues by Rose Whiteley - that highlights the problem faced by smokers in today's anti-smoking climate.
Rose writes:
Holidays for me have become the very opposite of what they are intended to be: stressful and anxiety-provoking, to the point where I dread my partner saying, “Where are we going to go on holiday next?” And he of course is penalised by having his holiday options severely curtailed through no fault of his own other than being in a relationship with someone who smokes little more than a packet of cigarettes a week.
The article finishes with this poignant observation:
If you’re reading this thinking, “What’s the big deal? It’s only for a week or two”, I would ask you to imagine how you would feel if you like to drink say alcohol, or coffee, and going on holiday meant you could only do that nice, relaxing thing while standing outside in a car park or on the road, in all weathers. Does that give you the holiday vibe? I thought not.
That struck a chord. I don't smoke but I love good, strong coffee and I miss it enormously if I go without.
Two years ago I took my family on an American-run cruise ship. The facilities were pretty good but I couldn't get a decent cup of coffee anywhere. On holiday little things like that matter and I would think twice about booking with that company again.
Anyway, don't forget to post your smoker-friendly holiday nominations. Over to you.
PS. I have just done an early morning interview from my hotel for BBC Radio Shropshire. Subject: smoking in play areas. Even on holiday there is no escape!!
Reader Comments (30)
I was with Simon in Austria too with Chris Snowdon. I could hardly contain my excitement on going to reception and seeing an ashtray at the bar.
Sitting down for dinner people smoked through looking at the menu, after starters, in between courses it was wonderful.
I also understand Bulgaria is very good, a bottle of wine £2, same for cigarettes and smoking inside.
The Republic of Ireland is out anyway - sorry Simon
I am actually holidaying in the Republic of Ireland in July, John, so I shall be hoping for a somewhat more comprehensive guide from you then ...
Czech Republic. Prague. I was completely overcome with emotion to find I was welcome in nice places and that those places had choice and ventilation so good you had to ask if smoking was allowed because you couldn't smell it and the anti's mythical fog wasn't there to indicate it.
I also wore my F2C badge and a couple of locals noted it and said they felt sorry for UK smokers because they knew how marginalised they were.
One non smoker said he quit 20 years ago but he didn't have a problem with smoke and he believed that there should always be choice.
Of course the Czech Rep loves smokers because a recent study there showed smokers pay ten times the cost of their healthcare so they help the country's healthcare system and pay for treatment for non smokers too.
Our narrow minded and bigoted Govt wouldn't be interested in any of this. It is too busy with regressive programmes of segregation, discrimination, and stigmatisation to look at progressive technological solutions to ensure that all consumers are treated as fairly and equally as others in the Uk as they are in CR - once part of the Former Soviet Bloc and not too keen to give up free will after so many decades of having free will, free thought, free action and free speech suppressed..
Holland, very few restaurants you could smoke in, but there was only bar i couldn't smoke in because the owner wanted to keep it smoke free, that was The Smallest pub in Amsterdam, which you could not get more than about 30 people inside. Every other bar we went into you could smoke, then another bar we went into had a large smoking room, the Dutch would not put up with this nonsense, plus all the bar and night club owners "stick together".
Here in Greece, despite there being an EU mandated smoking ban in all bars, restaurants, public buildings, workplaces etc etc (this is the fourth time they've 'implemented' it, I believe), you would be forgiven for thinking that there had never been a ban at all. I go to the tax office, and there are ashtrays on the desks. I go to my local bars / restaurants, and an ashtray is provided. A couple of months ago, I was in the reception of the main police station (these are the guys who are supposed to be enforcing the bans, remember) and the place was a fug of tobacco smoke and the desks had ashtrays and fag / tobacco packs scattered around, the cops sitting, puffing contentedly away underneath the big "No Smoking" signs. My accountant chain smokes when I'm in his office.
You could say that the smoking ban in Greece has not been a resounding success!
The antis are few and far between here, and smoking is seen as a very normal activity. No wrinkled noses, no hand waving, no sour looks. And no-one thrown out of their favourite bar because it's become "smoke-free". And I'm talking about the winter months here, when people sit inside. In summer of course everyone sits outside, so those bans wouldn't apply anyway.
Yes, I can recommend Greece as a smoker-friendly place. The only areas where bans are enforced (sort of) are high-profile areas, like airports. Everywhere else, unless the owner actually wants a non-smoking establishment, you can relax, have a coffee / beer / ouzo / meal whatever, and smoke with no feeling of guilt or fear of offending.
Rose, Rep of Ireland is definitely out if you're a smoker, in fact you could call it little England where smoking is concerned and our stupid govt think that it attracts tourists for this very reason even though tourism has plummeted, the only tourists that come here now only come for the cheap hotel deals or to visit foreigners living here and we have more Quangos 800, than England.
Athens last year seemed to be good could smoke indoors in a bar but was only there for a day we stayed in Glyfada 40mins away and while not as strict as here, was allowed smoke indoors in a bar they gave us an empty can instead of ashtray, some restaurants were non smoking but the rest were practically indoors and with the good weather was quite bearable.
Prague, Czech Republic is also my definite favorite- very few places where smokers are not welcome.
Budapest, Hungary used to be very nice- but they have got the ban from 2012, so I don't know how it is now...
The Free Society article precisely echoes my own feelings about holidays these days. Even in the rare event that one finds oneself in a hotel or guest house with smoking rooms or a half-decent smoking area, the preceding angst and worry about the “smoking situation” when you get wherever you’re going pretty much negates any “rest and relaxation” once you’re there.
But the other problem I find when looking around for possible places to stay is that there are huge numbers of places which simply don’t mention their smoking status at all. At least those who trumpet their intolerance credentials by proclaiming “we are a non-smoking establishment” tell smokers not to bother spending their money there. Many more just don’t mention smoking one way or the other – and who wants to be bothered ringing 20 or 30 places (most of which, statistically, probably are non-smoking and thus not worth considering as a venue) to ask? It’s such a waste of time, and in any case often the information that you get over the phone “Oh, yes, we have some smoking rooms,” turns out to be incorrect once you get there, so why bother? It’s yet another reason why I haven’t taken a proper “going-away” holiday in about four years, haven’t really missed it, and have saved shedloads of money into the bargain!
Greece again! Even at Athens airport they have an indoor smoking room which is fully air-conditioned and clean. You can also smoke outside and there are plenty of clean ashtrays.
I go to Samos Island and the bars and restaurants all still have ashtrays on the tables, and at the hotel I stay they allow smoking in the rooms.
Iraq has to be the number 1 destination its almost compulsory to smoke. The North is particulary scenic and has nice bars. Spring/Autum is the best time and not too hot. The people are friendly and it is very interesting.
I have just come back from Valencia in Spain, where I was very surprised to find it not exactly anti-smoking, but far from being pro-smoking either. Most restaurants naturally have large outside seating areas, where one can obviously smoke, but what did surprise me was the fact that most bars, especially the small ones, didn't even have the usual few barrels with ashtrays on them outside - consequently, smokers are left, just like here in the UK, to stand, somewhat uncomfortably in the street, although the weather is considerably better - it was in the mid eighties while I was there, bearing in mind it was the end of March!
From my experiences of smoking in Spain, it seems that the further south you go, the more tolerant they are, but once you journey northward, the attitude seems to change, along with their politics - Conservatives to the south and Lefties to the north. But please don't let this put you off from visiting Valencia - it is a beautiful city with a vibrant night-life and if you are like me, you will always find somewhere to relax and have a smoke.
As a sort of p.s. I must mention Stansted Airport, where I flew (first time) from. I didn't like the airport one bit (strange people there) but, directly outside the main entrance, and undercover of a massive canopy, is a large section of tables and chairs - and believe it or not, this is a "Smoking Area". Quite civilised I would say!
Rose,
By all means, come and visit Ireland this year and I do hope you have an enjoyable break here. I suppose, many of us Irish are embarrassed that the warm welcome and friendly atmosphere have become a thing of the past. The economic collapse has been a shock, and worry is now the common currency.
However, it is perfectly legal to smoke in your Hotel room everywhere, as it was one of the exemptions to the ban. But, when booking it, make sure to ask for a smoking room. Many hotels have also made excellent provision for smokers downstairs, but some just have an alley out the back, open to the elements. Publicans must apply to build a smoking room, and if it features a roof, then it may only have two walls, or four walls and no roof. But, when you do venture out for a smoke to any designated area, that is where you will find people happy to chat to you - the plus side. Always ask for advice from them about the place you find yourself in.
Guest houses tend to less smoker friendly, unless they smoke themselves. Very few restaurants have made any provision, so you could end up on the street after your meal, but you will not be alone. In rural areas, you will find 'the closing time fun'. If you can stay beyond 11.30pm, when last drinks are called, some places will just empty in an orderly fashion. In others though, you will notice, perfectly nice people staying on, so that when the owner finally locks the door, the ashtrays come out and the drinks flow. You must find these places yourself as they don't advertise. Don't worry then if the local Garda comes in for a drink after 2.00am - he'll be a smoker himself.
At the big sports grounds, most are no smoking now, which translated into our speak, means the stands. You will see smoke wafting up from the terraces though. For the rest, you will not be in any workplaces, so never mind that. Cinemas and shows are non-smoking but again at the intervals, there will be a place that everybody goes, so watch to discover where this is. And the good news is that you can find little gems of smoking rooms all over, if you look and ask.
Accommodation here has become much cheaper too over the last three years, but always ask if there is a special. You can pay €6.00 or above for a pint of lager in some places in Dublin, and as little as €3.00 in my local in Cork. Some stouts are even cheaper than that elsewhere in the country. The food is usually good in most places and excellent in areas like Kinsale town. The few Motorways are great when you get onto them, but beware - unlike the UK, they do not warn in advance of speed traps, the sneaky bastards.
If you get good weather, there is nowhere nicer than this sparsely populated green land. Remote areas of the South, West and North West coasts are wild and beautiful. The English are the most welcome tourist of all, as you lot are very like us. There is no language barrier, and apart from the Euro, you will see much that is familiar to you, but slightly different too. In the Hotels particularly, you may discover many Eastern Europeans serving you, and twenty years ago, there were about four of them in the whole Country. The population are mainly a pasty white in color, though you will find darker skins about too, and Dublin aside, the pace overall is slower here than across the pond.
In my own experience, Austria and the Czech Republic are the most smoker-friendly countries in Europe. From what I hear, Slovakia and Serbia are about the same. In Croatia you can smoke in many bars but not restaurants. Otherwise, Poland now has a pretty comprehensive ban, and Hungary and Bulgaria are threatening to tighten restrictions, but I don't know how far they'll go. I haven't been to Portugal for a while but I'm told it's still pretty good, like Spain used to be until recently. Switzerland is confusing because different parts have different laws, but the general trend is nonsmoking. Holland is not bad - most restaurants are nonsmoking but there are a lot of bars where you can smoke. The same applies to most of Germany, with the notable exception of Bavaria. Forget Munich! But Berlin is good - again, it's not hard to find a smoking bar, and nightclubs generally have a smoking room or just let you smoke even if it's "Verboten". Most restaurants and cafes are nonsmoking but a few have a smoking room where you can eat.
Scandinavia is terrible for smokers, but the exception, so I'm told, is Denmark where there is an exemption for small bars. Of course France, Italy and Spain all have total bans but are pretty good in the summer, since they are better set up for outside eating and drinking than the UK.
Beyond Europe, Japan is one of the most smoker-friendly (and fascinating) countries in the world. Antismokers rarely mention Japan: it's one of the world's heaviest-smoking countries but also one of the healthiest - the Japanese live longer than anyone and have low rates of 'smoking-related' disease. They are also super-clean and hi-tech, so air filtration systems are first-rate and it's never smoky. Ironically though, considering what most of us are used to, there are restrictions on smoking outside, on the street!
The USA is generally awful for smokers but many people don't realise that the law varies from State to State and there are still some places where you can at least smoke in bars, including Florida, New Orleans/Louisiana, and Las Vegas/Nevada.
The prize for the worst countries in the world for smokers goes jointly to Canada, Australia, New Zealand - and of course the UK and Ireland!
Thats right, you can smoke outside at Athens Airport and they have plenty of seats, a very relaxed airport.
But I agree with Misty, trying to book a holiday abroad nowadays is a nightmare, gone are the days when you could browse a brochure and pick your criteria as to location, now its all on line where you get little or no information as to where the hell it is and your brains would be scrambled with the hours or days wasted trying to find out whether hotels/apts are smoking or non smoking.
In fact I find that booking a holiday, if your a smoker, is now more stressful than coping with the nightmare that the airport scene has become.
The only reason I go abroad these days is to get the cheaper fags but even that is beginning to wear thin.
I've just come back from Berlin. In the city centre tourist area, no bars (all served food) or cafes allowed smoking. A couple of kilometres outside in residential areas, there were bars and cafes which allowed smoking. These have a sign on the door. Most of these bars didn't open until around 3 in the afternoon and many, but certainly not all, were what would be described as dives in the UK. The only food serving, classier places I found with a separate smoking room (in which food could be ordered and consumed) were an American style pub/restaurant, open from 11am, and an Indian restaurant near my hotel, which were both excellent. The hotel was fine. I stipulated a smoking room and I got a good room. Smokers were not given the worst rooms. The night before I left, I stayed in the Britannia in Manchester. Got a smoking room, no problem.
when I attended my daughter's wedding in Derby, I booked one smoking room for myself and one non smoking room for another daughter and my grand daughter in the same hotel. I was shocked to find we paid the same price but their room was very comfortable and clean. The furniture and curtains looked quite new and polished.
My room on the other hand had an old mattress that was lumpy with an old bedspread and curtains that looked like they came from a second hand shop, as did the battered old furniture. This was not because of smokers using it but because the hotel deliberately kept it second class. There was even a warning not to drink the water from the taps in the room so I had to buy bottles of still water to fill the kettle. My daughter's non smoking room did have fresh water drinkable from the taps though.
I've come to expect second class treatment wherever I go in the UK but I fail to see why we should have to pay the same price for it.
That's why if I must now holiday in England, then I'll take my own accommodation - my tent.
Sorry John, but I will never visit Ireland or Scotland and despite having many friends in Wales, I won't be visiting again if they impose the outdoor ban.
Italy is far more tolerant when it rains - or so I found when one bar owner urged us to go back inside when we went outside smoking.
I guess your treatment as a smoker on holiday depends upon the biased prejudice of some or the good manners and tolerance of others .
Having started this discussion, I'd just like to put on record how very grateful I am to Simon for giving me a platform and for all you guys for your incredibly helpful feedback. It's so easy to feel like we're on our own out there, struggling with this quality of life stuff.
It's just great to have such in-depth and helpful information about holiday destinations. Makes me think we really need a permanent place on-line to share holiday information and keep it up to date (ie I've just stayed in such and such a hotel in XYZ resort and it was great, or the opposite) ... although who could fund and maintain such a thing is another matter.
Anyhow, in the meantime, I'm so thankful for the heads up. I have my next few holiday destinations sorted! And John, I shall certainly take your invaluable advice into account for my Eire sortie in July, thank you.
There is no way at all that I would go to Ireland - the people chickened-out, and it was their stupidity which lead to all the progressive bans.
I went to Prague at the end of March last year (2011). I specified a smoking room. It seems that all the rooms were smoking if you wanted them to be - they just put an ashtray in your room! A great bar which served food was just across the street from the hotel. I really enjoyed that bar. There were no restrictions at all, but we must remember that the publicans fought like hell for exemptions - unlike our toadies.
The horrific nature of the way in which the quack professors have destroyed civilisation never ceases to amaze me.
Smoking news from Denmark: Although the new red-green government announced it would remove the smoking exemption for small bars in 2012, they were forced to decline from doing so, because a new poll just showed that 57% of the Danes were against it (63% males, 52% females).
This is the second time a tightening proposal failed. The old conservative government dropped a similar proposal in 2009 when the health department could not show any fall in the rate of heart attacks since 2007, when the ban was introduced.
So there is still many smoking bars in Copenhagen and throughout the country, but no smoking restaurants. Smoking rooms are available in about half of the hotels.
Rose,
One or two sites have sprung up over the years claiming to cater specifically for smokers. And some general holiday sites (not all) offer a “click” option to find smoker-friendly venues. But in my experience the main problem with these is that they somehow – how do I put it? – seem to slightly lack the courage of their convictions, if you know what I mean. Smokers Welcome was particularly useless and inaccurate and I don’t know if it’s even going any more, and some of the information on the “general” sites is either too vague to be of any help, or is totally out of date, or is simply wrong.
Smokers United is, in my opinion, by far the best set up and easiest to navigate and seems to be kept quite well up to date (and it’s worldwide) – I just checked a few venues, and the info (they say) was last updated just last month (although quite how they manage to update so many places so often – and all at around the same time – makes me just a tad suspicious). Pleasingly, it isn’t possible to access information about non-smoking venues at all – if a town or village hasn’t got any smoker-friendly places it just notes that they’ve found “3 nonsmoking hotels” (or whatever) and you can’t access that town’s details. Slightly less pleasingly (although admittedly I am a bit obsessive about these things these days!), they don’t always give very much detail about the smoking facilities – they just indicate that there are “smoking bedrooms” or a “smoking lounge” (which I guess in the UK means a smoking “area”). I’d like to see a bit more detail about these rooms/areas – “pleasant,” “recently refurbished,” “heated,” “easily accessible,” “welcoming;” OR “basic,” “rather run-down,” or “some distance away,” etc would be helpful in further refining the ever-diminishing choices we smoking travellers face. But as a site it isn’t bad although I confess that as I don’t bother going anywhere these days I’ve never actually put any of their information to the test ...
Oh, and just for the record, when I looked up a couple of cities in Ireland I was surprised by how many smoker-friendly hotels were listed there – far more than in England. So, if you’re not sorted on a venue yet, take a look.
That is certainly an eye opener regarding Denmark, Klause K. You say you have a new red-green government there? does that mean a Leftie/Green Party coalition? Sounds horrific!
But having said that, you also say that they declined from removing the smoking exemption for small bars because a new poll just showed that 57% of the Danes were against it. You also say that the old conservative government dropped a similar proposal in 2009 when the health department could not show any fall in the rate of heart attacks since 2007, when the ban was introduced.
In stark contrast to what is happening there in Denmark, when the UK Government (all parties) get bad results from polls, they just organise another poll, worded in a different manner until they receive the results they are looking for. 57% against a total ban? No problem - let's just say that a sizeable number of those polled were under age, making that particular poll null and void. Organise another poll - this time made up of 50 workers in the pharmaceutical industry and hey-presto they get the "true" answer to their poll!
Say what you like about the UK - but you have to admit, we certainly know how to do democracy here - with the emphasis on the "do".
@Peter: Here in Denmark the health bodies and cancer-orgs have constantly lobbied politicians and public opinion to persuade the government to remove the exemptions so that Denmark would become "a true smoke free society", like England, Ireland & Norway.
My view is that politicians and the public are tired of hearing their views in the media all the time. The health lobby have overplayed their cards.
That's what the poll shows. The votes against a full ban is up since 2009, when the result was close to 50/50. This tendency is likely to be the same in England and other countries, I think.
My 2 centavos: we visited the Dominican Republic a couple of years ago and it was very smoker-friendly.
You’ve hit the nail on the head, Klaus K. It’s becoming the same in the UK, although I think we’re a bit behind Denmark. I just get the feeling here in the UK that each and every new anti-smoking story is greeting with a rather bored sigh, even from non-smokers, and a sort of “So what’s new?” shrug of the shoulders before they turn their attention to something more interesting and less repetitive. I’ve said it several times before, and I’ll say it again here – I think that in many ways the smoking ban (particularly the no-exceptions type which we have here in the UK) may well turn out to be the worst thing ever to happen to the anti-smoking movement. “Overplayed their hand” sums it up perfectly.
Thailand is smoker-friendly the more backpacker you go. So nice restaurants and malls in Bangkok are no-smoker, Khao San and beachtowns are very smoke-friendly.
Not only Vienna - all of Austria is smoker-friendly! Nowhere else in the world you can enjoy a cigarette on top of a mountain overlooking unspoilt nature. Join our initiative at http://www.facebook.com/AustriaComeToSmoke
I live in Ontario, Canada and they want to now ban smoking outdoors on bar patios etc. Its so sickening people are partying more at home.
Canadians need to stand up to these woosie lobbyists. Let the anti smoking lobbyists take an inch and they want a yard.
Barcelona! I was pleasantly surprised by how many places accepted smoking. All patios and most restaurants allowed it. Wonderful and everyone seemed to co-exist quite nicely.
The best part is the airport. They have this huge outdoor space with a bar and restaurant if you want a drink or eat but there's seating everywhere for smokers. So civilized! Quite unlike the militant non-smoking attitude in Vancouver. Here, you are made to feel like a crack addict if you are a smoker and you see people smoking in back alleys to avoid the 'evil eyes' on the non-smokers.
As a result of the ban I can no longer go on holiday. I love holidays but I will never have another one ever again. I also have no days or evenings out. I detest TV but hat's all there is left (I never used to watch any TV prior to 2007).