New threat to smoking outside
Monday, October 10, 2011 at 10:43 In August I reported that Local Government Minister Bob Neil had rejected newspaper reports that the new Localism Bill might allow councils to ban smoking in parks and other non-enclosed areas.
According to a statement:
“Reports suggesting that the Localism Bill will allow the introduction of smoking bans in public places are wide off the mark. There is nothing in this Bill that provides additional powers to prohibit smoking in open spaces or in private cars.
“We are giving councils a general power of competence - this will allow them to do the things that any individual generally could. It will particularly help councils find new ways to work to save money and protect frontline services. But that does not permit the introduction of new regulation on the broader public.”
Today, in the House of Lords, peers will consider further amendments to the Localism Bill. One, introduced by Conservative Baroness Gardner of Parkes, seeks to insert the following clause:
Power to make byelaws about smoke-free places
(1) A local authority may make byelaws designating as smoke-free any place or description of place that is not smoke-free under section 2 of the Health Act 2006.
(2) The place, or places falling within the description, need not be enclosed or substantially enclosed.
(3) The byelaws may provide for such places, or places falling within the description, to be smoke-free only—
(a) in specified circumstances,
(b) at specified times,
(c) if specified conditions are satisfied,
(d) in specified areas,
or any combination of those.
(4) Terms used in this section have the same meanings as in the Health Act 2006.”
I'll keep you posted. *STOP PRESS: Word is that the amendment has been withdrawn.* "No appetite for debate" says a source. More info as soon as I get it.
Reader Comments (15)
Nanny Milton had made clear elsewhere that this was going to happen. I'm scared. My council is smokerphobic.
Dick Puddlecoat wrote about that when they began talking about the amendments. They have taken their time getting to the one on smoking outdoors!
http://dickpuddlecote.blogspot.com/2011/09/will-nationwide-outdoor-smoking-bans.html
Baroness Gardner of Parkes is a dentist and comes from Australia, ironically her husband the late Kevin Gardner won the Arnott Prize for oral surgery in 1954.
This has to be stopped now.
Is it worth emailing Bob Neil about this?
So, they're to be allowed to prohibit a legal activity on no grounds whatsoever?
I can hear the deafening sound of town hall tills ringing.
Preposterous.
I don't think the Lords can add or delete anything in a bill without it going back to the Commons for approval. The second chamber cannot make any Law on it's own.
I may be naive but I believe the Executive would not be best pleased for this issue to be opened up again. It would almost be a rereading of the '06 Health Act.
The smokerphobe charter!
You will notice of course that Baroness Gardner has left one ingredient out of her nasty little pile of dung; can you see what it is?
Being a smokerphobe, she does of course tell you where you can’t smoke but she doesn’t tell you where you can smoke. Looking at number 1 in the list it would seem that all the bases have been covered, there won’t be anywhere to smoke if the council deems it so.
You see how clever the politicians have been, they have passed the responsibility of further smoking restrictions on to the councils, so if no one likes it well then you simply blame councillors. And how many politicians will object, since nearly everyone is a smokerphobe now!
What happens if she has her way, and many people are fined for smoking in smoke-free areas. Do we then send them to prison, will our prisons be full of people whose only crime is to smoke? Many other European countries are now allowing smoking establishments - which makes us a complete laughing stock!
So then, as far as Gardner is concerned you can buy a perfectly legal tax paid product – but hey, you just can’t use it anywhere if your local council says so.
What a hoot eh?
Again, accuse me of being naive but, surely, if this had been intended it would be in the original bill. Not only is it not but Neil, a Minister, has also specifically said that things of this nature are 'wide of the mark' i.e. not intended.
Not only do I feel the Govt. knows it has to tread carefully over this issue (hence not being included originally as it doesn't wish to reopen a festering wound) but it's also a little desperate by tobacco control, a last ditch effort as it couldn't get it included initially.
I stand to be shot down in flames but I don't see it happening for practical reasons not the least being as said above, the Lord's cannot make unilateral legislation.
Frank, I hope you're right but so far every restriction ever suggested has been made - it's only ever been a question of time and propaganda.
If they were to bring in any sort of outdoor smoking ban it would be impossible to enforce, and considering this is a "Conservative" who wanted to amend this bill for more smoke free legislation, hardly a party who believe's in "FREEDOM." And as for Bob Neil who is now Pub's minister his new role hasn't got of to a good start after his appalling speech in a pub in Vauxhall recently, and even a Daily Mail Online journalist gave up on a interview.
I’m not surprised to read that this amendment has probably been withdrawn. I think that, behind closed doors, the Government have agreed amongst themselves – and instructed their lesser minions (such as Councils) that smoking and the smoking ban are Political Hot Potatoes Which Are Not To Be Touched. I think they’re giving the body swerve to all smoking-related discussions, whether for further or fewer restrictions. I agree with Frank – if they’d wanted Councils to continue their dirty work they’d have put extensions to the ban into the original wording; the whole subject was, I feel, deliberately left out for a reason, and the last thing they want is it creeping back in again.
PS: Can anyone explain to me exactly what the phrase “will allow them to do the things that any individual generally could” actually means??
I'm afraid I don't trust them. When they bring back fairness, tolerance, choice and truth and lay off the bullying via Lansley and Milton, then I will believe that no more restrictions indoors or outdoors will come.
Wales doesn't appear to care about this "political hot potato" as it hurtles ever onwards to impose first a car ban and then no doubt a home ban hot on its heels.
Until then , it really is only a question of time here. We got socially excluded because we thought our Govt would never legislate for discrimination and it did. We cannot afford EVER to be complacent.
If councils have no power to further persecute us then I'll believe it only when and if I see it. But I can't forget that my Smokerphobic council banned it in public buildings before the law stole private property rights and forced the tolerant to follow suit and exclude smokers.
Where there is a way, I am sure my council has the will. The stable door cannot be shut. The horse has bolted. Please don't let them fool you again.
They may not encourage councils to do this but will they prevent them? As there is no protection from harassment or discrimination for smokers at present, I can't imagine for a minute that the Govt will make any law that forces councils to leave us the hell alone.
The amenment was withdrawn.
Lord Shutt of Greetland said
"Therefore, if the evidence on the harms of exposure to second-hand smoke becomes more robust, and the Government's preference for voluntary local action to extend smoke-free places where there is a clear need is shown not to be working, the Government can consider using Section 4 of the Health Act 2006 at a later date. I would say that, at the moment, the Government do not intend to make use of these powers. However, I know that colleagues in the Department of Health welcome the debate on this important issue and will continue to monitor developments and the evidence."
It was clear that HMG did not want this to be included in the 'Localism' bill. It is already covered by the 2006 Act.
It's news to me that a Minister already has the power but I'm content that Councils wont have it per se and I don't see them being given it, either.
Generic Viagra smoking must be banned in every country?