Smokers? "We've been in lockdown since 2007," says Bernie

Thanks to everyone who joined us for the latest Forest webinar last night.

There were excellent contributions from all our speakers, beginning with Madeline Grant (Telegraph) through to Rob Lyons via Jim Butcher, Frank Davis, Nick Hogan and John Mallon.

Madeline reprised some of the points she made in the Telegraph article that helped inspire the subject of the meeting ('It's our patriotic duty to go to the pub, and save one of Britain's last great institutions').

Jim also talked about the importance of the pub, emphasising its role in British culture. I regret I didn't take notes because it was like a masterful mini lecture (and I mean that as a compliment!).

Blogger Frank Davis made perhaps the most poignant contribution, as I thought he might, because of all our contributors – with the notable exception of Nick Hogan – the smoking ban really hit Frank hard.

As he explained, he really hates the ban. Frank still visits pubs, and sits outside, but even that small pleasure could be taken away from him if ASH and their ilk have their way.

If Madeline's red and white flowery wallpaper made the most striking statement, the award for most appropriate backdrop would go to John Mallon's virtual pub. It was so realistic it looked as if he was in the very Cork pub in which the picture was taken.

John explained the differences between British and Irish pub culture, notably the inventive way many publicans get round the smoking ban.

I can vouch for that myself because I've experienced some pretty amazing smoking 'rooms' in Ireland that appear to make a mockery of the regulations and are tolerated, for the most part, by the authorities.

Another speaker – former publican Nick Hogan – really was sitting in a pub. I introduced him as the "famous" (or infamous) Nick Hogan and it's wonderful to see him in such good spirits.

Today he's working for Chris Clarkson, a Greater Manchester Conservative MP, but many of you will remember Nick as the first person to be jailed in connection with the smoking ban.

In 2010 Nick was sentenced to six months in prison for refusing to pay a fine imposed for flouting the new law. He was released after twelve days but only because an online campaign raised the £9,500 needed to pay his fine.

Anyway, after stressing the role of the pub as the hub of many local communities, Nick disappeared, leaving an empty chair but his laptop camera still on. Presumably he went off to buy a drink or have a pee.

Talking of which, one of our regular attendees went completely off piste with a rant about pub toilets but we never got to the point because the audio quality wasn't great and Rob (who was also in charge of the technical side) had to mute her.

Well, that was his excuse.

We also heard from Liz Barber and Chris Snowdon who described their experience of returning to the pub after lockdown, and several others.

The comment of the evening however came from Bernie Carroll who spoke for many smokers when he said, "We've been in lockdown since 2007."

For the first time we over-ran (by about 15 minutes) but I was determined to finish the meeting with the comment that Joe Jackson posted here last week.

It's worth another outing because it sums up, I think, a common reaction to the question 'Is it our "patriotic duty" to support the pub?'. Joe wrote:

This is an agonising question for me. To the smoker commenters saying, if I'm not wanted, I'm not going: 'I feel your pain'! I stayed away from pubs almost entirely for years after the ban. More recently though, I've had to ask myself: do I really want them all to die? And do I never want to go to a pub and enjoy a pint, ever again?

My answer now is no. Instead I've figured out which pubs are still really making an effort and that includes for smokers. Often they're run by smokers and provide the best facilities they can. I want to encourage them and I believe they get the message. They also allow vaping inside which I find makes a big difference, though I still prefer real tobacco and understand others who aren't interested in vaping. The situation stinks and plenty of people know it. No one has come up with a way to actually change it, though. I think it will happen, but in some way we can't see right now, and may never live to see.

Meanwhile I think we all have to deal with it in the way we feel most comfortable with. For me that means going to a select handful of pubs because I can still enjoy them on the whole, and don't want them to disappear. They know I'm a smoker, and they know many others are staying away. I wish the pub trade had done more to stop the ban, but I'm not sure it would have made much difference, and I can't take it out on the individual publicans who still give a damn and are doing the best they can. Though if vaping is banned inside and smoking outside, I may well once again wish them all to hell ...

Frank Davis has also blogged about the meeting here.

Comments

[Pat Nurse]

What is the point of voting for anyone in future when unelected quangos and activists win every time no matter who you vote for. The Tories deserve to lose that red wall and I for one will never vote for them again. They are making life worthless and joyless.

I wish I could have joined you because like Frank, the ban hit me hard but the incitement to hatred of smokers by the anti smoker industry and bigoted bullying anti smoker ideologues was even worse.

You knew why I couldn't join you. Perhaps next time because if they ban smokers from outdoors too, they ban me from ever meeting my friends in public again, and the only way to meet in future will be virtual pubs.

What really depressed me most is that people are not prepared to put boots on the ground in protest but rather spout hot air when law makers clearly have ear plugs in listening to the siren call of liars from ASH.

I would rather die of covid than live with the future of hatred and criminalisation that ASH and other nasty tobacco controllers are designing for us.