Aussie court decision of no relevance to United Kingdom
Wednesday, August 15, 2012 at 9:17 Don't panic.
The announcement this morning that an Australian court has rejected a challenge by tobacco companies to the plain packaging law may be a setback Down Under - and will be celebrated by anti-tobacco activists worldwide - but it has little or no relevance to the UK, or anywhere else.
One, the companies were challenging whether the relevant Act was contrary to Australia's constitution. (The UK doesn't have one.)
Two, opposition to plain packaging in the UK (not to mention America where plain packaging would be completely unconstitutional) is far greater than it ever was in Australia. (Have I mentioned that 235,000 people signed the Hands Off Packs petition?)
Consumers, retailers, shop workers, businessmen, serving and retired police officers - these are just some of the extraordinary number of people who have expressed opposition to plain packaging in the UK.
Today's announcement will be welcomed by ASH et al but don't for a moment think it will have a major impact on the debate in the UK.
There is still everything to play for ...
Full story: Australia cigarette plain packaging law upheld by court (BBC News)
Update: Aussie ruling on plain packaging won't affect UK campaign (Forest)
Marketing magazine also has the story here (Tobacco giants lose Australian ruling on plain cigarette packaging) with a quote from Forest.
Update: Forest undeterred by Australian court ruling on plain tobacco packaging (Retail Times)
Reader Comments (13)
I really, really hope you’re right, Simon, except that I heard that the tobacco companies intended to pursue this in the courts in the UK provided they won the case in Oz. And, as they haven’t … Sorry to be pessimistic but I just think that “the authorities” can’t afford to let any case like this, anywhere, be successful – because the outward ramifications for the anti-smoking industry and for the health authorities and Governments who support them, is just too huge for them to permit it to happen. “Permit” being the operative word, here. Of course, if we had a truly impartial, fair and reasonable courts system then clearly they’d be able – and indeed I believe would want – to hear cases objectively and make objective decisions about them. But I think in the case of smoking vs anti-smoking massive pressure and enormous machinations go on behind the scenes to make sure that any case which challenges anything the antis want fails in the courts.
In many ways I’m astonished that the tobacco companies haven’t worked this out for themselves – I was surprised that they even bothered with the court case in Oz. Don’t they read the papers? Don’t they listen to the parroted mantras spouted by everyone from the top of the anti-smoking industry to the lowest little drone sitting alone at the bar of his only remaining pub? Haven’t they had their fingers burned already by court cases a-plenty, like the one which resulted in the Master Settlement Agreement? Didn’t they learn anything from that? Haven’t they ever heard the phrase “one law for them and one law for us?” And haven’t they realised that in this instance “them” is the anti-smoking industry and “us” is themselves and their customers?
Sorry, Simon. I really hope you’re right, but I am feeling more and more pessimistic about all this the longer time goes on. I think that this is too little, too late from the major vested interests who could have challenged so many of these anti-smoking rulings whilst they were still being debated (and I include the pub landlords, Pubcos, restaurant and hotel chains and trade unions here, as well as the tobacco companies). It all smacks a bit now of “locking the stable door after the horse has bolted.” Oh sure, if the tobacco companies make a bit of a successful stand now they might just catch a few hairs from the horse’s tail as it flees for freedom, but really, what’s the point in that? We might as well all pack up now, put on an artificial smile and pretend like mad through our gritted teeth that we’re really enjoying living our mundane, stagnant, “smoke-free” lives, and hope that the early death we’ve all been promised as smokers arrives just as quickly to us as born-again, miserable non-smokers.
Sorry for the rant, Simon. It’s been a bad couple of days …
Misty -I agree. It's shame we weren't this organised 20 years ago and it's a shame that the tobacco companies have been so brow beaten by the Tobacco Control Industry that is trying to Nationalise its business.
I suspect now that the reason the alleged "consultation", or fix up by Bully Lansley, was delayed was so that the Aussie result could be decided first.
Like it or not, that will give the Bully and Nanny Milton the confidence to enforce it on us and they will because they really don't care what adult consumers think. They only care that they personally hate smokers and smoking and they will do anything to damage the tobacco industry and criminalise smokers before they get booted out in 2015 - and they will.
I've said it before, Lib Lab Con makes no difference but the Tories need to be punished severely for what they are doing to us and Tory voting smokers need to vote differently - at least once - to show them that they've had enough.
As long as smokers keep voting to be turkeys at Xmas they will continue to get stuffed.
Of course, the tobacco companies don't have to comply with the law - they could simply cease trading in Australia (it is a relatively small market). I wonder how long it will be before the government buckles after the loss of tax revenue, rampant smuggling and the associated crime.
God, I would love to see that happen.
Man, all this cr*p is really making me sick, not at us smokers but these Nazi minded, bigot fools who really cant see beyond their noses. Guys, there are more ways than one to skin this cat, ok, so they are introducing the plain packs, well ok, go to my website, download a template and design one or choose a ready designed pack, print it out, and follow the instructions and make your very own snazzy cigarette pack.
Personally, what I do, I make a batch of 20 cigs, made from pure untouched tobacco, which if you smoke whole leaf bacci will know, it does taste pretty good. And I put different messages on the pack, usually about how our fascist government and the likes of 'ASH' are discriminating and actually stealing from us. (I will come to that a bit later) I often put website links to sites like here, my own site and TCTactics.org. And when I go to a cafe or a pub where you can consume your drinks outside, and if it is a sunny day even better. I leave about 5 or 6 cigarettes inside the box, so when someone comes to sit at that table when you have gone, they will naturally have one, in which that time they will read what is on the box. You see where I am going with this.
Oh yes, about the stealing, I will give you an example. Just over a month ago I bought 3LB of whole leaf from the states, it cost me £40.05 including shipping. A few weeks later, a grey card comes through the door telling me, that if I want my box, I have to pay £258.46!! Holy cow!!! how much are the HM thieves making????
I am now declaring war on those swines. I am hoping to either join or form groups who would be interested in planting tobacco plants into the wild. Roadsides, waste lands, anywhere you can think of, keep doing this until the plants really do start to spread. And when the time is right, spread the word to people who enjoy smoking tobacco and don't want to be ripped off. ANY TAKERS?
One more thing, a big thanks to Patsy for sharing her knowledge on growing tobacco.
Mark, I was just going to say the same thing. Despite Tobacco Control's mantra of "Big Tobacco! Big Tobacco!" we all know that in reality there is no such thing; there is just a collection of companies, competing with each other and squabbling over their respective market shares.
But what they need to do in Australia is do exactly as you say. Shut up shop! Make a big deal of the factories they are closing. Make a noise about the distribution depots they are shutting down and the hauliers who are being laid off. Then let the worried shopkeepers stand up for themselves for once, when one of the main things that draws people into their shops is no longer legally available.
Then let's see how the Government likes the lost revenue. Let's see how they like their vindictive childishness resulting in billions of foreign cigarettes being imported and sold in the country, week-in, week out (and all Oz tax-free, of course).
For the tobacco companies, all that is left is to go nuclear. In this time of outdoor smoking bans and home smoking bans etc and where their very right to identify themselves as a distinct company has been removed, that is all that is left. For what is "the next logical step" that TC is always so fond of taking? Outright banning of tobacco, of course. Beat them to it! Don't let them prepare! And let them know that the ramifications of their meddling are wholly on their own heads.....
This is the only way I can ever see sanity restored to the tobacco industry (you know, where representatives of an industry can actually have a meeting with people who are creating legislation that affects it). It would also make TC extremely hated and vilified as people realise the damage that their stupid, vindictive actions have caused.
Painful in the short term, but it's a matter of survival now and I think this is their last bet at doing so. If they continue to do nothing, none of the existing tobacco companies will even exist in 25 years time.
I dunno, Simon... I appreciate your upbeat-ness but my years in legal work tends to make me think that the lack of a British constitution is actually worse for us. Secondly, Commonwealth decisions are indeed citable in UK courts, so the Oz case could very well set a precedent. Whether the UK will give the Oz case any real weight, should it come to that (and I suspect it will but hope it doesn't) is another matter. Oz still has to go through all of the WTO challenge stuff next... and that will definitely set an international precedent for plain packs one way or the other.
Of course, we have to consider EU law as well, and we know that the EU is thinking about plain packaging for all member states. This adds a greater degree of uncertainty for the UK, because in the past few decades, UK judges have basically gone along with all EU decisions.
Having given this a lot of thought: What we need (or perhaps will need) is a consumer-driven, consumer-based lawsuit in tangent with but separate from any tobacco company suits. We need top barrister who honestly believes plain packs is a crap idea, isn't looking to make any money of this gig, and will help us win this thing. She or he does not yet exist, to my knowledge. Most if not all of the barristers working in and around Temple wouldn't touch this case, for fear of hurting their future political careers as Lords, etc... which is sad.
Maybe next time I'll gave a go about changing our government and getting rid of our crap politicians who are screwing us over at every opportunity. Oh, wait, I just had that go...
So, is the real prize in TC's mind the collapse of the tobacco companies so that they shut up shop? Brands will be unable to compete with one another and the premium brands will have to lower their prices and therefore their profit margin. TC will control the pack size and therefore the product size and HMG will squeeze more dosh out of us by reducing the size of product whilst increasing duty. They could easily engineer the situation that counterfeit is preferable to Big T produced product not only because a pack of 20 is cheaper but that you get more in a cigarette. There again, someone has to provide the counterfeiters with tobacco.....
@Chris Rendall : love it
Jay - I've had the same thoughts. See my post here. http://patnurseblog.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/we-must-sue-govt.html It's time we all worked together on this and started raising the funds now to sue our Govt when it announces plain packaging and we know that it will. Bully Lansley has ensured it with corrupt consultation.
Australia is a test case for plain packaging, so it should be a test case for withdrawal of bona fide industry. A sudden drop in revenue, both from the tax on tobacco, and the tax from the businesses who would go into liquidation. A sudden rise in unemployment from all those who at present work for tobacco and packaging manufacture. A sudden rise in crime, including violent assault as smokers become angry and irritable. A sudden rise in the black market. These things would affect everyone, so could not be ignored, or given some other reason for their occurrence. Those who suffered loss of employment, and a host of others who suffered in some way, could not put the blame anywhere else but the Tobacco Control fanatics.
Simon, can the Tobacco companies appeal ?.
What's to stop the tobacco coys from selling durable plastic cases that just happen to be the right size for 20 cigs? If they're empty, ie don't contain cigs, there'd be no need to have warnings, a grotesquery of images or anything else on them and the branding would be fine as, even if teh cheedlren are spontaneously attracted to them they won't contain anything that'll harm them.
Failing that, I'd be fine with them just pulling out of the OZ market and shafting them.
I'd like a link to Chris Rendall's site.