Government to announce plans for plain packaging
Sunday, March 6, 2011 at 17:09 I have just been interviewed by LBC on the subject of plain packaging.
If you haven't read today's papers you may be unaware that the Coalition Government is (allegedly) planning to use No Smoking Day on Wednesday to announce the introduction of plain packaging on tobacco products.
There may also be an announcement about Labour's tobacco display ban, which was opposed by both the Tories and Lib Dems in opposition but is still on the agenda.
I am still gathering my thoughts on this extraordinary if not entirely unexpected development, but I wanted to publish this post as quickly as possible so you can add your own comments about plain packaging, in particular.
Apparently the Government sees plain packaging as a chance to "lead the way" in the war on tobacco.
"Leading the way" is becoming a nauseating mantra from the tobacco control lobby. Ireland "led the way" with its smoking ban; Scotland "led the way" when MSPs voted for a display ban; and last week the Welsh Assembly "led the way" on something else. (I've forgotten what it was - a week is a long time in politics - but tobacco was at the heart of it.)
The problem with "leading the way" is that there is no evidence that the plan will actually work. In this instance I have yet to meet a smoker who will quit because his regular brand loses its logo and colour scheme.
Nor will it stop teenagers smoking because there is little evidence that young people are tempted to smoke because of the "glitzy" packaging. If anything it will make smoking appear more illicit and, potentially, more attractive.
Looking at the wider picture, smokers are clearly persona non grata when it comes to David Cameron's Big Society. You won't be receiving an invitation to join the PM's great big social experiment. If you consume tobacco you can expect to be marginalised, stigmatised and denormalised until you learn to behave in a state-approved manner.
I will almost certainly be doing more interviews on the subject over the next few days so I would welcome some feedback.
Reader Comments (34)
I think the Welsh thing might have been smoking in cars.
An interesting week ahead then. Loins will be suitably girded. ;)
Just think. If plain packaging is introduced, what's to stop a tobacco company boldly reducing their product's cost to gain market advantage? After all they're not having to pay for all those expensive logos now. of course all the other companies would have to follow suit. Sounds good to me.
Of course, sales of cannabis, crack cocaine and heroin really suffer because of the lack of brand differentiation, don't they?
Yet more evidence that the Coagulation is just a case of being beaten with a different coloured stick.
This "leading the way" business supposes some sort of "march of history" whereby anything that is novel is somehow automatically "progressive" and "advanced" just because it's new. It's nonsense, of course.
As Tory I subscribe to the Conservatives Blue Blog, their email to members and supporters, and a chance for feedback. Here is my comment you may want to as well.
Excellent speech David but you said “..from bringing some sense to our public finances to dismantling Labour’s nanny state.”
Why is there not an amendment to the smoking ban and why are we pushing ahead with the tobacco display ban? The smoking ban has cost us 10,000 pubs and over 100,000 full and part time jobs, while the tobacco display ban is going to close 10,000 shops and perhaps 50,000 jobs.
http://blog.conservatives.com/index.php/2011/03/06/building-a-better-future/
My thoughts are:
1. The dubious logic of a display ban and plain packaging.
2. Smugglers must be rubbing their hands.
3. More profits for tobacco companies as the design department gets scaled down.
4. Now the nanny state has started on drinkers we will get even more public support.
I am disgusted with Milton and Lansley.
The cigarette counterfitters must be rubbing their hands with glean at the prospect of palin packaging. No need to go to the expense of trying to replicate a pack of Marlboro Lights or Benson & Hedges Gold.
Am I having a bad dream? Is this Coalition as idiotic as the last bunch of wasters? What happened to Cameron's mantra of a society free from Big Government? What happened to evidence-based laws and regulations? What happened to the free markets and consumers free to make their own choices without being bullied or nudged?
I tell you what happened the Coalition is no different to New Labour - full of controlling, overbearing second-raters. It really is time to change the political landscape of Britain and vote for anyone other than the main three parties. I despair!
The current graphic warnings aren't 'glitzy' enough so they have to make them bigger!?
Evidence, science and common sense have gone out the window.
So not only have they caused job loses in one sector (pubs) they want to destroy jobs in another (small business) just as the economy goes downhill. Oh, and DC suggested entrepreneurs are the way forward.
Still let smokers withdraw from the 'big society' since that is apparenlty what they want. The smoky-drinky needs to prevail, smoking is a social activity.
With the money running out how do TC manage to continue to survive and apparently offer solutions that destroy economies?
Basically plain packaging only affects two groups -
The tobacconists, who will no longer be able to see a brand at a glance and will have to waste time searching for the required product
and the Smugglers and Counterfeiters who will laugh all the way to the bank..
I have submitted this to BlueBlog, to which I am linked because I corresponded with the Conservatives during the last general election. I wonder if it will be used.
It may seem a side issue to people younger than I am but I cannot believe that this nation supports freedom, tolerance and individuality while no-one who smokes can enjoy a cigarette or pipe in a pub with his pint and in a bar set aside for that purpose. As a septuagenarian I am appalled that people of my, or any generation, can be treated so contemptuously. This is the generation whose parents, with their Woodbines and Weights and cups of tea, helped win the war against fascism.
norman says it all really.
Here we have an initiative that even Tobacco Control cannot back up with facts. Those funded by Government, Pharma, EU or WHO (again) emotively suggest promises of benefits with no downsides and have probably planned the outcomes for studies that support the measures and ignore the loss of trade, businesses and jobs.
Even MPs supporting this misled fellow MPs by rehashing the thoroughly discredited evidence from the DoH and their handmaidens at ASH etc.
I'd like to see the Regulatory Impact Assessment for this so we can compare it's similarity to one of my grandsons storybooks.
The vast majority of younsters copy their peers and when they are offered a cigarette they do not look at the packaging.
The local corner shops were a life saver to the elderly during the bad weather last November and December and if thousands of them close due to any deplay ban, many elderly will die.
It just shows how bereft of logic and commonsense politicians are. Leave to one side the possibility of legal action by the tobacco companies for not being able to market their product legally; there is a simple way to circumvent this crap.
What’s to stop online entrepreneurs from selling cigarette cases that look like a pack of your favourite cigarettes? I only smoke cigars and a pipe now, but back in the 80s I smoked Embassy No1. I bought a cigarette case that looked like a packet of Embassy No1 cigarettes, it was a novel idea. The case was made of sturdy plastic and cost about £3.50. It also lasted for many years too.
I’m quite sure Big Tobacco would only be too glad to give their backing to these cigarette case manufactures’, since they would be getting a nice kick-back for allowing their logos to be displayed in this way.
So, you go into a retailer and buy your brand (I’m not sure how you would know your brand though), you then simply take out the cigarettes from their plain packet and transfer them to your cigarette case.
If the retailer wants to put two fingers up to Lansley et al, then the shop could have a clear plastic drum on the counter which will contain the screwed up plain packets, and along side he would be selling the cigarette cases complete with branding and logos. After all – there is no law against selling look-alike cases, is there?
Even if the retailer were to be stopped from selling the cases, you would find it difficult to stop the online businessman/woman from doing it. Lansley and Co will be making a lot of people very rich.
I’m constantly amazed at just how stupid politicians can be, there’re incapable of thinking logically in a straight line.
It's about further denormalisation of smokers more than the protection of children. There is no evidence to show that plain packaging will stop people buying tobacco. Children are prevented by law from buying these products. It is no business of Govt to legislate further. It is a dangerous move that will create a harmful, underground and dangerous black market which will sell and promote tobacco and cigarettes to children.
I think there needs to be a public enquiry to find out what links the Conservative Party has to the anti-smoking industry and why Lansley and Milton are in ASH's pocket. There can be no other reason why the Govt will impose an unpopular policy that simply takes smokers a step further towards the criminalisation of their product. If that is the Govt's ultimate aim, it should state it clearly here and now so that the wider public can asses for themselves the true motivation behind what is an absolute nonsense based on paranoia and hysteria.
The Conservative Party, who voted two thirds against the Health Act on 14th February 2006 (the day I was 55). The party who then pushed for exemption for private clubs. What happened?
Anyway, forget the past. They will do anything to look as if they are trying to stop kids from starting to smoke, whether they believe plain packaging (and display bans) will do this or not doesn't matter, it looks like they are trying.
The only way to stop kids from taking up the habit is to do what Bhutan did in 2005, ban tobacco completely,,,pardon?...oh that doesn't work either.
So the pictures and warnings will be bigger and starker, well, they work don't they. Oh well, more work for the cigarette tin and tobacco pouch manufacturers....then the spotlight will be on them, and 'tobacco control' will be meauring tins and deciding what material pouches have to be made of.
JJ wrote:
[i]"... What’s to stop online entrepreneurs from selling cigarette cases that look like a pack of your favourite cigarettes? ..."[/i]
Why make it look like a pack of cigs? I reckon that a case with interchangeable covers, like mobile 'phones'll be better. Far more glitzy and individual. Cigarette cases'll make a comeback, be far more of a fashion statement and be all the more glitzy and attractive to youth. Thus the plain packaging'll backfire.
It'll also mean that the rollies that I'm going back to, because they're cheaper, will be nearly indistinguishable from ready-mades.
”The only way to stop kids from taking up the habit is to do what Bhutan did in 2005, ban tobacco completely ….”
On another comments board, I read a comment which insinuated that apparently MP's are not allowed to pass legislation which will put companies out of business, and my researches so far have come up with nothing which confirms or denies this viewpoint. Do any legal-eagles on here know if this is true? Because if it is, then I’m fascinated by the concept. Is there some kind of higher “ruling” for legislators which prohibits them from making hitherto-legal things illegal? Is that also why they’ve never made other drugs, such as cannabis, “legal” (the official term they use is always “decriminalised” which is a bit different) – because once they’re in, they can’t get out? And if there is, who wrote it in the first place?
Or is it more of a moral obligation which politicians (amoral as they are) reluctantly agree to adhere to? Or a practical one (dismantling an entire industry would, after all, have enormous ramifications for an economy and have huge levels of fallout which would last for years)? I did once hear a politician on the radio say something along the lines of “we can’t bring in legislation which would deliberately put people out of business” but he didn’t elaborate as to whether this was an official obligation or just a moral/practical one.
I’m assuming here that we’re talking about the UK – maybe all western “democracies” – rather than dictatorship-type regimes where they can (openly) do as they wish (like Bhutan).
Any information gratefully received ….
I can't say that I'm not surprised with this news. Let's face it, where there's brass, there's muck.
The Tories have soon got in to bed with the so-called health-brigade (death-brigade in disguise).
As far as I'm concerned, if the Tories agree with the policies of TC, then they also hold joint responsibility for the disastrous social, family and economic consequences that occur as a result - including death and ill-health.
Are they bothered - unfortunately, I don't believe so. What does it matter to them as long as they continue to receive the funding they need to reap their priviledges - a fully funded lifestyle, including smoking rooms.
I call them total hypocrites - no doubt the MSM will embrace them as doing the politically right thing.
I understand that there are two legal cases going on in Scotland at the moment. One is to do with old lags claiming that they were harmed in prison by smokers, and the other is a case brought by Imp Tobacco about the anti-competition implications of the display/plain packaging proposal.
I find it hard to believe that the Gov will introduce regulations in England while these cases in Scotland are ongoing.
But we do not know whether or not these 'leaks' are just a cover for increasing taxes. They may be.
At the end of the day, it really does not matter what ASH and The Gov do. It really does not matter. Sooner or later, as regards tobacco, when the economics of the situation are right, people will grow their own. The same applies to alcohol. Neither of these scenarios are difficult to achieve - both require only a bit of patience.
It may be true that the enjoyment of tobacco and alcohol will have to become, for the time being, secret. If that is to be the way, so be it. I have tobacco seeds in my propagator at the moment. I see no problem. They will grow, and I will cure the leaves, and I will smoke them. That is my decision.
As regards Simon's request for feedback, it really is not difficult to make an appropriate comment as regards the display ban and plain packaging, and indeed, smoking in cars. the answer is: When is the persecution of The Smoking Community going to stop? When is Government going to stop invading the privacy of adult Englishmen? Are we fighting wars in order to give ASH et al dictatorial powers? Are not the values of children the decision of their parents and not the decision of ASH et al? When did the Gov acquire the right to dictate the values of children regardless of the values of their parents? It is not the purpose of schools to decide the values of children.
There are a couple of simple ideas.
a) It is OK for politicians to be short term as regards the economy.
b) It is not OK for politicians to be short term as regards values.
In conclusion, one could say that all these prohibitions (plain packaging, display bans) are, in reality, persecution of smokers.
@ Dave Atherton.
Is 'Conservative Blue' blog a new one, Dave?
I have been over there a couple of times tonight and there are no comments.
Re comments by JJ and Malenfant, when I was in Thailand a few years ago I noticed quite a few people using alternative packets for their cigarettes, as legislation decrees that all cigarette packets there must have large, grusome pics of medical conditions supposedly caused by smoking. The alternative packs people use can be girly and pretty or a parody, as in being branded "Death Sticks" with skull and crossbones. They are quite funny and quite popular. I can see something like that taking off in UK if they go ahead with this pointless legislation. I mean, really, do they believe it will make one iota of difference? These politicians seem to be living in a parallel universe, and have absolutely no grasp of what's happening in the real world.
The only difference it will make is that more young people will take up smoking!! Won't make any difference to me I buy all my smoking products abroard I don't pay the government to de-normalize me!!!!
Frankly, I cannot understand why smokers are still giving this Green Socialist NuConservative party their support. It's obvious they are not listening, they hate smokers, they have been bought out by the anti-smoker industry, and giving them your active support is working against smokers and this movement.
If you really believe in freedom of choice and fairness on this issue, then the Cons have made it very clear it is not the party for you. Please don't help them to prolong the agony and persecute us further.
Pat
As Timbone said "The Conservative Party, who voted two thirds against the Health Act on 14th February 2006"
On past form , it was entirely reasonable to expect The Conservative Party, to act like conservatives and put a stop to the denormalisation campaign as quickly as possible, however, given the opportunity they didn't.
At my earliest opportunity, I will give them a "nudge".
It's for their own good after all.
Sure Rose. We old Labour supporters got the same shock when we realised our party wasn't Labour any more under Bliar. I was suspicious of the Tories before the election because they were too quiet on this issue and I understood the need to get Labour out but I think the time has come for us to vote with our conscience as one group. Labour or Conservative makes no difference - it is one and the same part of the LibLabCon. I am truly living in fear of this Govt which is not listening to its own supporters but the prostitute that is the anti-smoker industry which is working towards our criminalsation.
The only way to give these parties a message is at the ballot box. Continuing support in vain of the Conservatives can only give them the message that this issue doesn't matter. It does. A lot.
Re cig cases: I imagine that even now manufacturers are designing a set of lookalike packs which will be marketed as memorabilia. In fact, buying one would be an act of protest at plain packaging as well as a slap wrt the 'health' warnings on current packs (which are unlikely to be included in the design!).
And what better way for kids to pretend that they smoke Marlboro?
I'm looking at my fag packet right now - the health warning is already the most dominant item - the logo is just squeezed into the top. What would plain packaging achieve? Except to raise confusion about the strength?
This government is as hopelessly controlling and naive as the last lot. I despair. I had hopes - no more.
I do wonder whether, in the most esoteric recesses of what is now called tobacco 'control', there is a patient expectation, or intention even, that those who remember different times should die off, leaving a society as sanitised, as heartless and above all biddable, as a new computer.
It looks to me as though the same old bullies and nannies are in power - instead of wearing red shirts, they are now wearing blue and yellow shirts. Almost one year after the general election and the same rubbish is being meted out. Sometimes I am ashamed of having been a conservative voter/supporter.
Whilst SHS remains unchallenged, this crap will continue.
The ConDems made all sorts of promises about a big repeal of all the unnecessary laws. The smoking ban and amending it for pubs was the most discussed of all the subjects on The YourFreedom website. A choice of rooms so everyone is made comfortable works well in democracies, like Germany. The likes of Clegg, Lansley and Cameron ignore the public majority that clearly prefers a choice of areas for adults and only listen to the likes of ASH. The smoking ban is ruining peoples social lives. I am totally ashamed of this government.
Is this really so much to ask for ?
Denromalisation and stigmatisation of smokers is ruining lives full stop. It is breaking up families and communities and ostracising law abiding people who just want to be left alone without fear or prejudice. This issue has gone well beyond whether we can smoke in our own pubs or restaurants/cafes or not.